Curse

Str0b0 · Apr 30, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

your derv goes to blind him, great, its removed, so is all of your enchantments by our mesmer. you have no energy, because he's burning you, and our sin is spiking your monk now too. the warrior knowing you're gimped, runs away, kills your mesmer, your monks dead, your necro is beginning to get shut down ect. all the derv was was a liability and adrenaline doll. the derv btw also wasted time healing, resetting enchants if he could, and trying to run into his backline that is now nonexistent. this happens all of the time in real play btw and is actually pretty hilarious. gimping the entire class can be done in so many ways, that its not even a challenge to stop them. like shield bashing a bad sin that attacks you head on or something.

You seem to be assuming that the dervish will not have team support as well? I blind you, it gets removed, my enchants get stripped. My Monk hooks up protection enchants. Mesmer burns me, remove hex and the initial strip gives me enough energy to apply at least my intervention and a cover.In the meantime I've tied up your mesmer, your necro and your warrior with just little ole me. Sometimes it's not how much damage you do it's how much you can detract from the enemy effectiveness. It's an old tactic in modern warfare. Guerilla fighters would rarely shoot to kill and do you know why? Because if you shoot to kill then they leave the body there, collect the tags and you have eliminated one man. You shoot to wound, now you have eliminated the wounded man and his buddy who now has to help him along. While your monk and mesmer are busy trying to eat me up what do you think my backline is doing? Sitting there with their proverbial thumb shoved up their butt? Of course not. My backline will be gimping your backline and I will still be getting in your way.

Even with protection spells plastered all over you I bet my critical hits, which I can spam, are still going to do triple digit damage easy which you have to rely on a monk to mitigate, thus further tying up your backline just with one character. Sure I can be stripped as a dervish but I can also kite like a fool, pull your backline forward while I reset my enchants, which you as a warrior have a negligible ability to do anything about.

On the other hand I'm fond of using rending sweep in PvP. All those protection spells keeping you alive from my criticals will be dust in a matter of moments and I'll make sure to burn a nice cover enchant when I use it so you'll be bleeding or burning and stripped of a vital enchant. Then you will have to focus on me instead of my backline because once I get those enchants off you there isn't a tactics or strength skill in the game that will save you from my damage output. Now your backline has to once again focus on me because I'm a threat and by trying to keep you alive they are over extending their energy on protection and heals and on stripping and trying to limit my effectiveness. If I can make your backline over extend by trying to counter just little ole me then we've got you beat it's as simple as that. So far your counters to the dervish in a team scenario seem to rely on your team focusing on the dervish and negating him. That in and of itself makes the dervish worthwhile. You can say they aren't a threat in PvP but if a backline has to focus that much energy and effort on one character then they won't have much left for keeping the team alive.

I've seen it happen a million times. While Dervish is the leet in PvE in PvP they are underestimated but when it comes time to fight and targets are called and a good dervish rolls through and starts laying out conditions and triple digit criticals priorities change and pressure lifts from some of your real damage dealers allowing them to do their job. Dervishes are the Guerilla fighters of PvP. They can unleash some heavy damage but they aren't as well equipped to do it. They instead limit your effectiveness by making you focus resources on them, or rather they can do that. That's my take on them anyway. I'm not in PvP to be the prime damage dealer. It's too boring. I'd much rather be the one running ops on your backline and making your support miserable trying to keep up with me.

nidus · Apr 30, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

i want to see a derv with some thought rather than "lets put all these healing spells on so we're INVINCIBLE!!!!!"" and rather.. "lets kill something this time".

you know what build i like? the popular gvg reapers sweep/disrupting dagger build. thats a good fighter. i wish more dervs used reapers sweep in pvp instead of stupid avatar crap. i know a lot do, but its a much better move than those things.

i totally agree with you there. too many dervs are using avatars, simply because they've heard that they're really good. I played avatar of balth for quite a while, then began to notice that when the skill ended an i went back to normal, i saw little or no difference, apart from that i actually dealt more damage without the avatar on.

Reaper's Sweep is a far better elite IMO. And if you think your build through as a derv, you can actually deal some good damage. As for healing enchants....yeah they're good for keeping you alive for longer, but they dont make you invincible, and cant stand up hardly at all against a good spike.

~ Dan ~ · May 01, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

both melee are hexed (warrior/derv), they both have faintheartedness on and cover hexes with degen. the dervs attack speed is about 2.45 seconds and the warrior (playing sword or axe) is 1.98, meaning he attacks more, gets more adrenaline, and is still getting pumped. your derv goes to blind him, great, its removed, so is all of your enchantments by our mesmer. you have no energy, because he's burning you, and our sin is spiking your monk now too. the warrior knowing you're gimped, runs away, kills your mesmer, your monks dead, your necro is beginning to get shut down ect. all the derv was was a liability and adrenaline doll. the derv btw also wasted time healing, resetting enchants if he could, and trying to run into his backline that is now nonexistent. this happens all of the time in real play btw and is actually pretty hilarious. gimping the entire class can be done in so many ways, that its not even a challenge to stop them. like shield bashing a bad sin that attacks you head on or something.

Vow Of Silence: For 5...9 seconds, you cannot be the target of Spells, and you cannot cast Spells.

where's your mesmer/necro now? free to blind you every 4 secs, ty, bb

Servant of Kali · May 01, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

i thought maybe i was using bad skills. apparently i was using a darn good build, because its really popular to this day

Argumentum ad populum.
Let's face it, people using the build doesnt make it good. Actually, when it comes to PvE, the rule of a thumb is - the more popular the build - the worse it is. Except solo farms ofc, since you need specific builds for them.

Quote:

but any good caster can kill a derv, and most good warriors, or a sin that has his upper hand, wins on a derv.

See, that's the whole point. You had 3 Dervishes, but your overall Dervish playskill is low, and the skills you use are probably pretty bad. Look, let's put it this way, if any warrior can kill your Dervish, you should simply resign the whole profession. I played PvE and tons of RA with my Dervish, and the situations where a warrior kills me is so rare that it's not even worth mentioning. Ironically, even with my D/A daggers build, i kill most assassins in RA before they kill me.

Quote:

i was in ra.. i saw at least 50 dervs there. every team i had had one or two in them, and worse than that, they couldnt deal damage, and healed NON stop. all that is to me is a HHs wannabe paladin wammo. total garbage for the team.

So, instead of making a thread "hey guys teach me how to play Dervish", you made a thread "i think Dervish is bad", based on your sub-par play experience and knowledge of Dervish class?

I have a break from the game atm so i cant demonstrate how Dervish is played in RA, but i did post my most popular PvE/RA build in this forum, more than once, when someone needed it (D/Mo Juggernaut build). Aside from that, D/A daggers build i use (and which may slightly differ from the one others use) is also very powerful in RA, with insane dmg, if you know how to use it.

None of my Dervish builds invest into Earth prayers (except D/E i use in Fort Aspenwood but that's a specific build), and i do agree with you in your RA estimate. I've seen tons of Earth (and other) Dervishes who had a lot of heals, but couldnt kill anything. The problem exists, but it's RA after all, and there are bad builds in every profession. Just as you can find a pure heal monk (who will die instantly), you can find a WMo with Mending, a Dervish with earth prayers, and minion master necro.

Quote:

what does that say for the class?? or at least the community of players? now i know warriors have some nooby dudes playing them, but they've been around since the dawn of gws.. so they kinda have an excuse.

Wait, and Dervishes dont? I mean, after all, for most people it's a new class unlike warrior, and Dervish requires 5x more skill to play properly. Warrior has armor, Dervish has better armor and heals *if* one knows how to play.

Let's say you have 2 newbies, 1 D 1 W. W newbie will win. As simple as that. But let's say you have 2 experienced players in RA, 1 W 1 D. I tell you that (along with the randomness of teams in RA) D player will achieve many more victories than W player.

Quote:

im not bashing dervs.. just wondering how they can get away with nothing but healing, pathetic spiking, moderate pressure that any class could apply, and the occasional luck kill, and not be called a bad class??

And you're not bashing dervs?

You know what, i've seen zillion of people like you in this forum so far, blaming the class instead of their lack of experience and skill.

Just so you know, Dervish, along with Monk and a Ritualist, is an overpowered profession in RA. If, if, you know how to play.

One of the last RA battles before i took a break from the game (studying heh), put me in a situation where all my teammates were dead, and 3 enemies alive. I managed to kill one of em (forgot what he was), then killed 2nd (he was mesmer) and then i was about to kill 3rd (who was, btw, a Dervish), but he saw he'd lose so he simply quit. That was their 9th game, they demanded i resign and that im noob because im not resigning. I told em, why should i resign, since i can kill all 3 of you. Which i did.

When you say that D has nothing but healing, moderate presure, bad spiking - you are correct. A Newbie Dervish indeed has those. Experienced Dervish in RA has good healing, good presure, good spiking. All of those.

Quote:

i DO know how to use them

And you base this on what? After reading your post, im not convinced you know how to use them.

Quote:

but i'd love to be convinced

I met tons of people who "like to be convinced", especially when one is talking about theology. Quite interesting was the fact that none of them actually want to be convinced, regardless of arguments/facts/statistics. They all want others to say "you're right".

In short, im not going to type any build or any tips for you, because you're not yet at the point where you could make any use of them. Or know how to appreciate those. As far as im concerned, go play RA with your thumper or your bad Dervish builds. Easy glad points for me.

Quote:

maybe they cant handle spikes that well.. any comments on that? are the enchants good, but not great against spikes or something? the heal to damage ratio seems to sluggish, and then to try to attack.. well.. you can see how its looking downhill..

No i cant see how it's looking downhill at all.
1) Yes there are a good enchants against spiking, awesome ones actually.
2) Yes there are Dervishes who dont use enough enchants, or proper enchants, or dont use them at the right time.

Quote:

one thing i REALLY dont like is the avatars.. nice and all.. but the down time, and general.. meh

That's because you lack experience and skill. Avatar of Dwayna is overpowered in PvE and RA. Avatar of Lyssa is extremely strong in RA.

If you're not skilled, you can always blame it on Avatar duration and interrupts, or a Dervish profession as a whole.

Quote:

i play a lot of ranger/mesmer. .. i just interrupt them lol.

And? This isnt GvG thread so let's say you're in RA. If you start using your Avatar once you get in front of the ranger, then does that make Avatar bad? No, the player is bad. If you're Rt spirit spammer and start spamming first spirit once a warrior is on you already, or a ranger, does that mean spirit spamming sucks big time? No, it's a very strong build, but not every grandma can play it.

Quote:

i do love things like Reapers Sweep

That's cool, because i said that you're inexperienced, and since i think Reapers Sweep is one of the worse Dervish elites, it just proves my point. Then again, a lot of people in the forum dont agree with me on Reapers, but not that i care.

Quote:

Melandru+imbue+dwanyas touch

Dwaynas Touch is a very bad skill on a Dervish, and if you "grokked" Dervish class, and became one with it, you'd know why, and wouldnt use it.

Quote:

but at least i wont be in an uproar when my guild wants me to play one for gvg/ta/ha

GvG and HA builds are team-specific, so im afraid this forum cant help you much. Especially this board which is PvE/RA section, definitely not GvG HA.

Quote:

um.. obviously the warriors werent "spiking" very well using a riposte build bro.. first meet a -good- warrior, then we can talk

I have yet to see a good warrior who will spike a good Dervish.

Quote:

every class has a counter/weakness if not MORE than one, but slow attacking

Slow attacking? As i said, learn how to play. Dervishes has the best IAS in the game.

Quote:

both melee are hexed (warrior/derv),

This is not a GvG/HA forum so im not gonna discuss the GvG/HA tactics.

Ok so both are Hexed. But Dervish can have Dwayna in which case.. no big deal. And if not, Dervish has better regen/heal, so degen from hexes or armor-ignoring dmg (let's say SS) will dmg warrior more than a Dervish. And a Dervish need not stop for Healing Signet.

Quote:

they both have faintheartedness on a. the dervs attack speed is about 2.45

No it's not.

Quote:

its removed, so is all of your enchantments by our mesmer.

Yea sure, and less guess, your mesmer is loaded with 10 enchant removal skills..

Quote:

you have no energy, because he's burning you,

If only you knew how difficult is to burn Dervish, especially while you're enchant removing him, you wouldnt be talking such nonsense.

Quote:

and our sin is spiking your monk now too. the warrior knowing you're gimped, runs away, kills your mesmer, your monks dead, your necro is beginning to get shut down ect.

Wake up this isnt a fantasy land. And im not gonna debate on every possible and impossible situation, as hypothetical as it can be, because that way no one can prove anything. You started saying how D is bad in PvE and RA, so let's stick to that. RA is not as organized as top GvG, and personally, i couldnt care less atm how good D is in top GvG.

Quote:

the derv btw also wasted time healing,

Yea those 1/4 sec enchants really take a lot of time..

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBP

every class has strengths and weaknesses, some more weaknesses than strengths...the Derv is one of those.

Yes, and the weakness is the player. The Dervish is one of the classes with least weaknesses, with the right build, which is why they are one of the overpowered classes in RA. When played correctly.

Quote:

in 1v1 DvsW the Dervish will be the underdog mainly because of his armor

No it wont. W will be the underdog.

The Dervish code:

I have no armor; the enchantments are my armor.
I have no slow attack speed; heart of fury is my attack speed.
I have no spike susceptibility; watchful intervention is my anti-spike.
I have no pressure; my scythe is my pressure.
I have no spike; overwhelming onslaught is my spike.
I have no downtime; lack of battle awareness is my downtime.
I have no law; Dharma is my law.
I have no purpose; "lila" is my purpose.
I have no principle; attunement to the flow of the Force is my principle.
I have no castle; faith is a fortress to me.
I have no home; in the depths of my being I make my home.
I have no parents; the earth and the sky are my parents.
I have no weaknesses; lack of skill is my weakness.
I have no enemy; inexperience is my enemy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nidus

I played avatar of balth for quite a while, then began to notice that when the skill ended an i went back to normal, i saw little or no difference

That's because Balthazar is the weakest of all Avatars, but at first glance it looks the best. I've tried explaining several times why and how it's the worse Avatar, but to no avail. So now i simply dont care, if i come against one i kill it with no prob.

~ Dan ~ · May 01, 2007, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by nidus

and cant stand up hardly at all against a good spike.

you may be talking about avatars.. i duno, but since when did they prevent spiking anyway? faithful intervention = gg :P

Mekkakat · May 01, 2007, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Argumentum ad populum.
Let's face it, people using the build doesnt make it good. Actually, when it comes to PvE, the rule of a thumb is - the more popular the build - the worse it is. Except solo farms ofc, since you need specific builds for them.

See, that's the whole point. You had 3 Dervishes, but your overall Dervish playskill is low, and the skills you use are probably pretty bad. Look, let's put it this way, if any warrior can kill your Dervish, you should simply resign the whole profession. I played PvE and tons of RA with my Dervish, and the situations where a warrior kills me is so rare that it's not even worth mentioning. Ironically, even with my D/A daggers build, i kill most assassins in RA before they kill me.

congrats. you've tried to insult me to make a sad and sorry point. i didnt say any warrior could do anything, just like any derv could. there are good dervs/warriors and vice versa. all this post is about is my opinion on how conditional they are and what advantages/disadvantages that could or could not bring.

So, instead of making a thread "hey guys teach me how to play Dervish", you made a thread "i think Dervish is bad", based on your sub-par play experience and knowledge of Dervish class?

well unless you cant read it says I STILL DONT LIKE THEM, meaning, oh God, anything but this!! SOMEONES OPINION. you base your information on me off of nothing, at least i did test with my own dervs both in pvp and pve. i dont see you doing anything but bashing people and thinking you know it all.

I have a break from the game atm so i cant demonstrate how Dervish is played in RA, but i did post my most popular PvE/RA build in this forum, more than once, when someone needed it (D/Mo Juggernaut build). Aside from that, D/A daggers build i use (and which may slightly differ from the one others use) is also very powerful in RA, with insane dmg, if you know how to use it.

Wow, you must be the ONLY person to use wiki. congrats, Lyssas Daggers is old and well known, you're nothing shy of played-out.

None of my Dervish builds invest into Earth prayers (except D/E i use in Fort Aspenwood but that's a specific build), and i do agree with you in your RA estimate. I've seen tons of Earth (and other) Dervishes who had a lot of heals, but couldnt kill anything. The problem exists, but it's RA after all, and there are bad builds in every profession. Just as you can find a pure heal monk (who will die instantly), you can find a WMo with Mending, a Dervish with earth prayers, and minion master necro.

I never said all Earth Prayers were bad either, just that they are well overused and mistreated as invincible partisans that people want to slam together into some sort of 55.

Wait, and Dervishes dont? I mean, after all, for most people it's a new class unlike warrior, and Dervish requires 5x more skill to play properly. Warrior has armor, Dervish has better armor and heals *if* one knows how to play.

first off, there are no skills that con boost a derv over a warriors armor+shield unless you mean conviction+Balth, which you say you hate. learn your stuff if you "know so much". True, a dervish does take a lot of skill to play, im not going to ever deny that, but ALL classes do once you get to a point of novice, to professional.

Let's say you have 2 newbies, 1 D 1 W. W newbie will win. As simple as that. But let's say you have 2 experienced players in RA, 1 W 1 D. I tell you that (along with the randomness of teams in RA) D player will achieve many more victories than W player.

what is this based on??? random stuff you come up with lol? i play warrior all the time in RA, and i never have a problem. im half way to rank 6 glads, and i dont see any dervishes getting in my way lol.

And you're not bashing dervs?

You know what, i've seen zillion of people like you in this forum so far, blaming the class instead of their lack of experience and skill.

you have? sounds like you really know it all huh.

Just so you know, Dervish, along with Monk and a Ritualist, is an overpowered profession in RA. If, if, you know how to play.

One of the last RA battles before i took a break from the game (studying heh), put me in a situation where all my teammates were dead, and 3 enemies alive. I managed to kill one of em (forgot what he was), then killed 2nd (he was mesmer) and then i was about to kill 3rd (who was, btw, a Dervish), but he saw he'd lose so he simply quit. That was their 9th game, they demanded i resign and that im noob because im not resigning. I told em, why should i resign, since i can kill all 3 of you. Which i did.

congrats. im sure you're the only person who's ever done this.
so i guess while you overextended, let your team die, then ran about healing and charging up your little mystic vigor and interventions, you managed to kill some casters with bad self heals. hooooo boy, i bet that was hard with that mesmer using ether feast!! zoooooomg

When you say that D has nothing but healing, moderate presure, bad spiking - you are correct. A Newbie Dervish indeed has those. Experienced Dervish in RA has good healing, good presure, good spiking. All of those.

And you base this on what? After reading your post, im not convinced you know how to use them.

honestly.. i dont think YOU know how to use dervs from how you explain your use of them rofl

I met tons of people who "like to be convinced", especially when one is talking about theology. Quite interesting was the fact that none of them actually want to be convinced, regardless of arguments/facts/statistics. They all want others to say "you're right".

uh huh *rolls eyes* lol, yet again, you must know me so well

In short, im not going to type any build or any tips for you, because you're not yet at the point where you could make any use of them. Or know how to appreciate those. As far as im concerned, go play RA with your thumper or your bad Dervish builds. Easy glad points for me.

congrats, you've wasted both of our time. at least i got a laugh out of you trying to... what are you trying to do? hurt my feelings? good job sticking to the OP, seeing as you're the greatest and all. i REALLY didnt want to see your cookie cutter Lyssyian Daggers build anyhow.

No i cant see how it's looking downhill at all.
1) Yes there are a good enchants against spiking, awesome ones actually.
2) Yes there are Dervishes who dont use enough enchants, or proper enchants, or dont use them at the right time.

That's because you lack experience and skill. Avatar of Dwayna is overpowered in PvE and RA. Avatar of Lyssa is extremely strong in RA.

i never said dervs werent good in pve. anything is "good" in pve.

If you're not skilled, you can always blame it on Avatar duration and interrupts, or a Dervish profession as a whole.

seems like most dervs do lol.

And? This isnt GvG thread so let's say you're in RA. If you start using your Avatar once you get in front of the ranger, then does that make Avatar bad? No, the player is bad. If you're Rt spirit spammer and start spamming first spirit once a warrior is on you already, or a ranger, does that mean spirit spamming sucks big time? No, it's a very strong build, but not every grandma can play it.

so what? they cast an avatar at the beginning in safe lines, then have nothing for at least a full minute till mr avatar works his way back to elite status.

That's cool, because i said that you're inexperienced, and since i think Reapers Sweep is one of the worse Dervish elites, it just proves my point. Then again, a lot of people in the forum dont agree with me on Reapers, but not that i care.

WOW... you've only proven that you might have less clue than the RA kids i saw running around with vigor/faithful/mys regen, and dwanya, trying to get every last bit of a heal per attack. JUST EQUIP VIGOROUS SPIRIT if you want to be a wammo! rofl

Dwaynas Touch is a very bad skill on a Dervish, and if you "grokked" Dervish class, and became one with it, you'd know why, and wouldnt use it.

its a touch skill, good self heal, and is the self heal for wind prayer users dude. what class are you playing????

GvG and HA builds are team-specific, so im afraid this forum cant help you much. Especially this board which is PvE/RA section, definitely not GvG HA.

I have yet to see a good warrior who will spike a good Dervish.

good luck when you meet him lol

Slow attacking? As i said, learn how to play. Dervishes has the best IAS in the game.

HEART OF FURY IS NOT THE BEST IAS IN THE GAME. Flail and Aggressive Refrain are BY FAR better skills. Heart of Fury is slow, unreliable, and easily taken from you.. get real!

This is not a GvG/HA forum so im not gonna discuss the GvG/HA tactics.

Ok so both are Hexed. But Dervish can have Dwayna in which case.. no big deal. And if not, Dervish has better regen/heal, so degen from hexes or armor-ignoring dmg (let's say SS) will dmg warrior more than a Dervish. And a Dervish need not stop for Healing Signet.

i thought you were the guy that didnt like earth prayers? lol

No it's not.

Yea sure, and less guess, your mesmer is loaded with 10 enchant removal skills..

no lol.. you must not play mesmers too often either.. heck, you must play nothing but low skill beginners from how you talk seeing as you're clearly the GWs master.

If only you knew how difficult is to burn Dervish, especially while you're enchant removing him, you wouldnt be talking such nonsense.

well seeing as when i play shutdown mesmer or have one on my team in TA/GvG, its always the dervs complaining about not having energy.

Wake up this isnt a fantasy land. And im not gonna debate on every possible and impossible situation, as hypothetical as it can be, because that way no one can prove anything. You started saying how D is bad in PvE and RA, so let's stick to that. RA is not as organized as top GvG, and personally, i couldnt care less atm how good D is in top GvG.

well seeing as you "dont care", why are you talking? why bother me and my cwaaaazy opinions. heaven forbid your wife ever disagree with you.

Yea those 1/4 sec enchants really take a lot of time..

only about 6 enchants are 1/4 second, and the rest are 3/4 to a second if not more, which are very easy for a skilled ranger/mesmer to interrupt.

Yes, and the weakness is the player. The Dervish is one of the classes with least weaknesses, with the right build, which is why they are one of the overpowered classes in RA. When played correctly.

lol again based on nothing. survivability doesnt make you good

No it wont. W will be the underdog.

SEEING AS THEY ARE STILL THE MOST USED, BEST CONSISTENT MELEE CLASS IN THE GAME. i guess warriors are neeeeever going to be used again because some derv guy said they suck!! oh no! better delete my warrior!

The Dervish code:

I have no armor; the enchantments are my armor. lol hope those dont get ripped
I have no slow attack speed; heart of fury is my attack speed.
for 16-17 seconds.. with downtime, removal and interruption in your way
I have no spike susceptibility; watchful intervention is my anti-spike. once. reapply it so i can hack you while you look silly and get spiked AGAIN. USELESS
I have no pressure; my scythe is my pressure. lol what? contradict much?
I have no spike; overwhelming onslaught is my spike. where are you going with this?
I have no downtime; lack of battle awareness is my downtime. rofl.. this is getting really good
I have no law; Dharma is my law. 1
I have no purpose; "lila" is my purpose. 2
I have no principle; attunement to the flow of the Force is my principle. 3
I have no castle; faith is a fortress to me. 4
I have no home; in the depths of my being I make my home. 5
I have no parents; the earth and the sky are my parents.6
I have no weaknesses; lack of skill is my weakness. 6 ridiculous statements with nothing to do with anything rofl
I have no enemy; inexperience is my enemy. THE FIRST TRUE THING SAID IN YOUR WHOLE POST!

That's because Balthazar is the weakest of all Avatars, but at first glance it looks the best. I've tried explaining several times why and how it's the worse Avatar, but to no avail. So now i simply dont care, if i come against one i kill it with no prob.

yeah.. ok pal. if anything, balth is one of the best.

bye no means am i or have i ever said i was the master of any class, nor do i believe i will ever see one. GWs is all about skill use, so to come onto an opinion , backed with facts about SKILL USE, post, i dont see why insulting anotheer person, simply wanting to see how others feel about the the subject, is not only acceptable, but done with such arrogance. i enjoy all classes in some way, but id like to believe dervs could get better, from their flawed states i believe they're in. please continue posting about your love/dislike for dervs, but lets not bash the people or class while doing so, and lets use factual basis to place our reasoning. not just.. "cause".

i really do enjoy and support this posters care for the class im assuming is his favorite class. i only wish he didnt need to flame :P

Str0b0 · May 01, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

yeah.. ok pal. if anything, balth is one of the best.

Actually I'm gonna jump in here and disagree with you. Balth is probably the worst avatar in the game. Personally I feel that avatars are gimmick skills and not worth the elite slot on the bar period but of all the avatars balthazar is the worst. You get a faster movement rate and an armor bonus, big whoop. It has no utility unless you want to say that the movement rate is the utility of the avatar. The armor bonus can be replicated using conviction which doesn't waste an elite slot and costs less in time and energy. The speed buff isn't important unless you're running somewhere. So what are you left with? Holy damage? Hope you're fighting a lot of undead. The other avatars have much more to offer. Lyssa can be a spiking machine with fast enough attacks through IAS boosts or the daggers trick. Melandru, huge hitpoint buff and immunity to conditions. That is useful. Dwayna, hex removal and healing with attack skills. That too is useful. Grenth? Well we saw what sort of mess he made in PvP when he first came out. People were destroying enchant based builds with his ability to strip. And what does Balthazar do? Umm he can run fast?

Pick Me · May 01, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Mekkakat:

After reading most of your posts, it seems that either you have high expectations out of the Dervish, which would be a good reason for your disappointment, or you have not had enough experience with that profession to see the true benefits of it.

I'm still learning about the Dervish, so you are way more experienced than I, however, from what others have said and your counter arguments, it would seem that in RA:

1) you as a Dervish were facing more experienced Warriors, thus you lose.
2) you as a Warrior were facing non-experienced or less experienced Dervishes, thus you win.
3) Groups you were in or who were against you were not as good in their communication and ended up on the losing end of battles.

I enjoy my Dervish, dispite me playing about 10 hours with him and having 0 elites, being lvl 20 and having very few skills (I'm such a newb with this profession), I can still kill things in PvE (then again, who can't kill anything in PvE).

I have found that in GW or any PvP game, its about the player and their experience in the terrain, the character they have chosen, and skills that they can use that determines outcomes in battles.

I imagine you are not as experienced with a Dervish as you are with a Warrior. So it would seem to you that the Warrior has more survivability than a Dervish. Hours may not be enough, situations and skill combinations may be what you need to use (experiement) to see what works for you (I know you have used pre-made builds and created your own - as you have already stated), but maybe more experimentation is in order.

Just my suggestions/observations.

/end observation mode.

WarKaster · May 01, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

to the OP:

a lot of people who play Dervishes in RA do so because they saw some one with a good build and saw how good a Dervish can be in the right hands. So because of this there are tons of people who play them that A:either have no idea that the armor on the dervish is nothing like a warriors but play them the same way, all damage no self heal or armor buffs or B: even if they are aware of point A they have no idea how to stack enchantments or when how to work them correctly to get the maximum effect from them. Which contributes to what you saw when you played. I have seen terrible dervish builds in RA and AB for example some dude was running Avatar of Balthazar, Armor of Earth and Stone Flesh Aura...Dervishes are not your normal melee smash and bash characters, they require alot of upkeep during battle. Because of their front line status and caster armor they do rely on enchants but the important ones usually have some type of effect that you don't want to happen if you are stripping them, like causing some type of condition whether it be burning,bleeding, cripple, blind and weakness or some type of self heal for the even energy gain. So as everyone has said already please don't judge a whole class by the people you saw who have not yet figured out how delicate the management of a dervish can be. Its like comparing a old Detroit Muscle car to a exotic sports car. Both are fast and powerful in the right hands. But one requires a little extra maintenance to keep everything at optimal levels.

Mekkakat · May 01, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

can we please stop talking about RA now? for the millionth time, it was part of a FULL observation test i went through. i have had 3 dervishes, one with which i completed nf. i had all the popular builds, and many of my own, seeing as i dont like most of the builds.

my test consisted of my 1st pve derv, who had:
at least 400,000 exp (because i had a ss of me playing about 2 weeks before i deleted him) and every solo build under the sun for him ready at my disposal.

TA/RA 50 games each.
TA-only 12 teams even had dervishes and they all lost.
RA 35+dervishes, very few lived through the fights, but if they did, they ended up resigning due to their team getting killed while they were overextending in "invincible" mode.

GvG/HA Observer mode-pre/grenth nerf and post

pre-grenth: well.. i aint gonna lie.. they were owning up the place
post: nothing, almost never seen anymore, and if used, simple pressure or the cookie cutter Reaper/Disrupting Dagger.

again, no, im not an expert anything, as are none of you, but im very skilled with ranger, mesmer, warrior, ritualist, and paragons. i only sound or seem dissapointed/annoyed because i want a class that is being called good, to actually BE good in my opinion. i dont want to "fit in", but at least understand WHY someone would even think these things were worth playing.

/opinion mode

i think that in pve, they can farm fine, but a warrior is still better, and a monk can do all the 130 can as well. in pvp, unless you leave those silly lil avatars alone, no. dont even think you can roll in gvg/ha with dwanya, cause we'll ignore you while we bash the team. then get rid of mr invincible.

/opinion off. im not saying you dervish players suck, i HAVE SEEN GREAT DERVISH PLAYERS. but not enough to say, OH NO! DERVISH ALERT as a community. more like.. i bet this guy is going to try to farm us *rolls eyes*.

i swear if i see one more freaking 130 derv in GvG imma FLIP.

as far as Avatar of Balth. i think in hardmode, kiting foes in NF and demons need dealt with fast, and he does the trick. honestly, i hate them all lol. but thats again, me, and i really do appreciate all the feedback so far. best feedback so far has been a private message saying:

"i play dervish a lot. im not a pro, and i know im not invincible, but in pve my earth prayers are more than enough, and in pvp my wind prayers keep me going while i reapers sweep up the joint. i play with team smarts, and i know my weaknesses, thats what makes MY dervish a good character. i could care less about all the little mystic regenerators in pvp anymore, they'll die when the casters get sick of them."

thats 100% true and something i honestly forgot to say.

im talking about the class, NOT PLAYERS. true, even some of the best dervs play premade or copied builds, but they can really own up the place, because of TEAMWORK. i think warriors stopped the whole "CHARGE IN" as a community, and gave it to the dervs

.

i dont hate derv players ,or really even the class.. maybe the armor hehe, but im only disappointed that i cant enjoy it as much as you all from my point of view. hell, i might just be really unlucky and have seen nothing but bad dervs all the time or something. btw, i stopped playing dervs in pvp since Grenth Nerf. i got tired of running reapers sweep and disrupting dagger awhile back, and thus, haven't. but at the same time, not other major skills have changed, so i do have plenty of pvp exp with them, maybe not as much as some of you hardcore derv guys, but my team kept me alive, and i did kill a lot of casters with it. so im again, NOT trying to be biased.

i enjoy hearing peoples passionate opinions about their class, so if you'd like continue posting about what you like MOST about your class.

!

~ Dan ~ · May 01, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

GvG/HA Observer mode-pre/grenth nerf and post

pre-grenth: well.. i aint gonna lie.. they were owning up the place
post: nothing, almost never seen anymore, and if used, simple pressure or the cookie cutter Reaper/Disrupting Dagger.

rofl.
have you even set foot in HA recently? 6 dervs 2 monks.. every derv has imbue health, preventing the monks being spiked. they put up 4 enchants, shadow step to target, all 6 fire off mystic sandstorm. i know what this spike is like, i've played it. must be 700+ dmg not including condtions, the infuser didnt have time to blink. now tell me wth your basing your observation on?

bungusmaximus · May 01, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Heh dervishes and wammos have some things in common, you can stack both of them with defense leaving yourself unable to kill a mouse whacked on THC. They have their weaknesses (they hate KD ^^) but they can do awesome damage. I deleted my dervish too btw. damn thing didnt suit me, but I simply cannot be good at everything

.

Str0b0 · May 01, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

The speed boost on AoB does come in handy when you have a kiter but again I simply prefer to use a snare. In HM my snare of choice is Aura of Thorns since it is AoE and allows me to snare multiple foes and kepe them in range of my scythe to take advantage of the AoE ability. Now in PvP I infinitely prefer Harriers Grasp because I use spammable attack skills. With EDA and Harriers grasp I can smack people with cripple and blind at the same time. Another interesting PvP combo is Lyssa's haste+Mystic Regen. This is one of the few instances in PvP where Mystic Regen is useful for something besides griefing. Usually the regen offsets the health loss and the energy gained from movement can really help protect against burns and enchant stripping if those two are properly covered.

Servant of Kali · May 01, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

i really do enjoy and support this posters care for the class im assuming is his favorite class. i only wish he didnt need to flame :P

OK. Let's go step by step then. I'll have more patience this time and wont flame BUT i expect the same from you, plus no rash replies.

I would have replied nicely in the first place, but you completely thrashed that profession ....

Quote:

Wow, you must be the ONLY person to use wiki. congrats, Lyssas Daggers is old and well known, you're nothing shy of played-out.

Actually i dont see Lyssa build on wiki, maybe i missed it. But that wasnt my point, yes others used it too, but i usually use my own skillsets, modified for my playstyle. That's what i meant, not that i invented it doh.

Quote:

I never said all Earth Prayers were bad either

But i am saying Earth Prayers are bad for primary Dervish

Im talking about normal PvE and RA here of course (since this is PvE/RA section)

Quote:

first off, there are no skills that con boost a derv over a warriors armor+shield unless you mean conviction+Balth, which you say you hate. learn your stuff if you "know so much".

You answered it yourself, but im gonna take a different approach.
When i play a Dervish, i almost NEVER use Dervish only skills. That is because Dervish has such a good synergy with other classes. In other words, a Dervish build (which can be D/E for instance) have higher armor than a W/x (any) build. Add to that a dmg reduction (Armor of Sanctity etc), and it's pretty much obvious who wins. In all this, Dervish uses no elite skill (free slot).

This is all irrelevant however.

ps: if you claim that it's not fair that D uses 2ndary skills, then you always have Balth, Conviction etc, except that i find the whole discussion pointless then. Dervish is not egomaniac profession that it would need to rely on its own skills all the time. Dervish is eclectic, and a good one. The good synergy with some classes is what makes him that good. Just as in RA you dont fight 1 on 1 battles (mostly), so in the game you use all you can, which means 2ndary professions too. I have no interest in debating theoretical stuff, only how it works in practice, and that means 2ndary profession is ofc an option.

Quote:

what is this based on??? random stuff you come up with lol? i play warrior all the time in RA, and i never have a problem. im half way to rank 6 glads, and i dont see any dervishes getting in my way lol.

It's based on my playskill and experience. I never have a problem with warriors and other dervishes either

Then again, i dont have a problem with anything in RA when im using my best build there, not even necro hexers or mesmers. The main problem is usually Rt who spammed everything around himself.. and then careful play is needed.

Im close to rank 4 btw, but i stopped playing the game, and i didnt play it all that much either lately. If Prophecy TA and RA counted, i'd have way more, but i played it so much back then that it got somewhat boring. Well, not with Dervish obviously

Anyway, i think there's only one guy in my guild who has less than 100 glad points, and the leader has over 1000 i think.

Look, i know exactly what's your problem with Dervishes, it's based on your own experience plus what you saw others using. In that, i'd agree with you. Dervishes i see in RA and PvE mostly dont thrill me that much. Half of them rely on earth prayers so much that their dmg output isnt all that great (as it could be), and half of them dont even use Heart of Fury (i dont even know if you do). If i based my experience of professions on how people play it, Warrior would be the worse profession ever (i still think they are in PvE haha). That's why im saying, you need to watch how good Dervishes play. Im not saying they are many, but they are out there. For instance, how many Dervishes have you seen using pre-protting tactic (or even know what it would be)? Probably none, because that's what i use, and a handful of people, probably, but i havent seen anyone else using it actually (in RA.. i dun watch GvG often).

Quote:

sounds like you really know it all huh.

That's right, and if i didnt know, i would be learning, not trying to explain stuff to others. I mean, what do you expect me to do? Assume this humble attitude and say "well i dont really know much about Dervishes, but ur wrong"

lol.. no, im gonn say "look im experienced as dervish, so i consider that i know what im talking about" (doesnt mean i cant be mistaken ofc).

Quote:

congrats. im sure you're the only person who's ever done this.
so i guess while you overextended, let your team die, then ran about healing and charging up your little mystic vigor and interventions, you managed to kill some casters with bad self heals. hooooo boy, i bet that was hard with that mesmer using ether feast!! zoooooomg

*yawn* do you actually have a point or what? I killed 3 people, singlehandedly. I killed 4 singlehandedly with illusion mesmer back in Prophecies, just FYI.

Now, dont go into crap like "oooh they werent lvl30 so ofc u killed em". No, they had RA builds, just as i did. You mentioned how e-burn and shatter etc hurt dervish, so i simply mentioned to you that i kill those without problem too. While they are in the team, not solo running around.

Anyway, just re-read your reply up there, and you'll see why i didnt bother much in the last post. Just because you disagree with your opponent, you instantly have to picture him in a bad light, even though you dont even know the situation. That's typical loser attitude btw. Like "oh you killed 30 people alone, but im sure you sucked!".

Now lemme sum it up for you:
1) they had 9 wins, surely it wasnt some sucky mesmer with ether feast
2) they were 3, regardless of everything
3) i didnt overextend, they couldnt kill me so they switched to my teammates and killed them, and we killed some of em, after which no one could rez anymore, so in the end it was 3v1
4) i didnt use mystic vigor
5) i didnt use any of the interventions
6) i killed em, which means i had dmg and wasnt just healing myself

7) trying to cut peoples head is a bad way of trying to be greater than they are

Quote:

honestly.. i dont think YOU know how to use dervs from how you explain your use of them rofl

It doesnt matter what you think, but what is correct.

And the bottomline is, when i give Dervish builds to people, their gameplay suddenly improves, they do much better in PvE or they get glad points real easily. In other words, im constructive. You, on the other hand, just managed to type a bunch of rant-like posts and no one benefits from it, no one learned how to play Dervish better, and no one got convinced how exactly warrior beats Dervish.

Quote:

i never said dervs werent good in pve. anything is "good" in pve.

Yeah, and Dervishes are fenomenal in PvE.

Quote:

so what? they cast an avatar at the beginning in safe lines, then have nothing for at least a full minute till mr avatar works his way back to elite status.

Irrelevant. The downtime of a skill is no indication of how good the skill is.

Quote:

WOW... you've only proven that you might have less clue than the RA kids i saw running around with vigor/faithful/mys regen, and dwanya, trying to get every last bit of a heal per attack. JUST EQUIP VIGOROUS SPIRIT if you want to be a wammo! rofl

*yawn*
You know, for argumentum ad hominem not to be pointless, you actually have to prove your opponent wrong, which you havent so far. You just keep proving that some people can only post rants and complaints and flames and critic, but in the end, no one remembers them. Those who are remembered and those who gave a constructive feedback/input.

Quote:

its a touch skill, good self heal, and is the self heal for wind prayer users dude. what class are you playing????

It's a very bad skill. And i repeat, if you knew how to play Dervish, you'd know why it's a bad skill.

Quote:

HEART OF FURY IS NOT THE BEST IAS IN THE GAME. Flail and Aggressive Refrain are BY FAR better skills. Heart of Fury is slow, unreliable, and easily taken from you.. get real!

*yawn*
Flail? What, you gonna come in RA and Flail me to death? And im gonna... what, stand near you? No, we gonna kill your teammates and then ram your behind, while you're trying to turn around with your decreased flail speed.
Aggressive Refrain aint better either.

Slow, unreliable, easily taken from me? As i said, instead of arguing with experts here, you should go play Dervish more, then HoF would be fast, reliable, and very hard to be taken from you.

Quote:

no lol.. you must not play mesmers too often either.. heck, you must play nothing but low skill beginners from how you talk seeing as you're clearly the GWs master.

*yawn* yea sure, except that mesmer was my favorite profession in Prophecies and i played it more than all others combined until i got sick of it, and until it got nerfed 25x.

Say, how many consecutives is your maximum in TA?

Quote:

well seeing as when i play shutdown mesmer or have one on my team in TA/GvG, its always the dervs complaining about not having energy.

1) it depends on derv build
2) it depends on individual skill

The point wasnt that uh oh dervish has unlimited energy; the point was that e-denial hurts dervishes less than you'd think. Try e-draining assassin for instance and you'll know what i mean.

Quote:

only about 6 enchants are 1/4 second, and the rest are 3/4 to a second if not more, which are very easy for a skilled ranger/mesmer to interrupt.

*yawn* oh yea i have my enchants interrupted all the time in RA... *sarcasm off*

Quote:

SEEING AS THEY ARE STILL THE MOST USED, BEST CONSISTENT MELEE CLASS IN THE GAME. i guess warriors are neeeeever going to be used again because some derv guy said they suck!! oh no! better delete my warrior!

As i said, argumentum ad populum.

Say, you ran out of arguments pretty fast... uh were there any actually? I have to say i havent see any aside of "uh i see bad dervishes in RA and im a bad dervish player myself ergo this class sucks".

Quote:

yeah.. ok pal. if anything, balth is one of the best.

It's the worse. Period.

Quote:

bye no means am i or have i ever said i was the master of any class

If you're not, fine then. Stop debating with masters of the class.

Quote:

i dont see why insulting anotheer person, simply wanting to see how others feel about the the subject, is not only acceptable, but done with such arrogance.

1) Because you totally thrashed a profession with zero valid arguments, based on your own inadequate knowledge of the profession and based on the people you see in RA who still are trying to learn how profession works, or are simply having fun with various builds.

2) Because you're not here to have an argumented debate, you just want others to approve you.

3) Because you create threads out of boredom.

4) Because you dont create a thread in the forum to learn or teach.

5) Because you pretend you want to be convinced but you dont, just like those religious fanatics. For instance - Heart of Fury being the best AI in the game. Of course, in everyone elses RA or PvE n stuff this will be so (as i said i'll focus on PvE and RA because that's what this board is about) - but in your fantasy world, every RA character has 8 enchant removal and 9th skill as rez. And when they use enchant removal on a dervish they first hit HoF, and not any of the enchants on top of it. For instance, you say it lasts 16-17 seconds. See, on a good Dervish, HoF lasts 24 seconds (out of 30). And, causes 42 armor ignoring dmg when it ends. And unlike ARefrain, it's 33% IAS not 25%.

6) Because there are numerous threads here about people who want to learn more how to play dervish, and they get tips and tricks (hint: search the board). Unlike you, who consider yourself the best dervish and the best warrior player here in the forum, except you're politically correct so u'd never say that of course. And then you expect others to humbly point out what's wrong in your view, except, you dont want to hear that, you want to be tapped on the back and hear 'oh great XY, thou, the best warrior player in all 3 worlds, are no match for any of us, puny dervishes'.

7) Because unlike you, i know how to play Dervish i know how to play it well, and im tired of someone thrashing the profession with wrong arguments or the lack thereof.

Servant of Kali · May 01, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

again, no, im not an expert anything, as are none of you

This reminds me of girls saying "im a slut, but then again, all girls are sluts." That makes her feel good.

It's the same with you. "Im not expert, but then again, no one is". And you go home thinking how great it is, because none has the authority and arguments to tell you you're wrong. And you remain ignorant for the rest of your life, chanting "ignorance is bliss".

Quote:

i think that in pve, they can farm fine, but a warrior is still better

Does anyone in this thread actually care whether dervish is good for farming or not? There is no word that can describe how much i detest farming, so thank you Lord if Dervish is bad for farming!

ogami_ito · May 01, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

...when i play monk, i heal, rit, i support/heal, mesmer, tons of things, warriors kill, rangers thump/intterupt, sins spike, paragons support/spike, necro, support, and eles pressure/kill. when we gvg/ha, dervishes are never a threat, even in the backlines, they almost seem like a joke. like "oh here comes another" HEX, or BLIND. and then they run. where as the same thing would happen to me as a warrior, and i could fight right through it and take that damage/degen or lack of ability to attack with aplomb and start chopping heads after with ease. to me its like this

I don't understand. How can your warrior resist/overcome hexes and blinds better than the derv? As a warrior you can take that damage degen / lack of ability to attack...hmmm. Your warrior is a wammo with condition removal? Has avatar of Melandru? Has that wind magic hex removal spell? Warriors on their own have more armor, but as a class has far less ability to deal with hexes, degen, and conditions. In fact, this is the primary advantage that Dervs have over warriors...better abilitie within the class to deal with conditions and hexes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

...derv pvp= pressure. they have a good bit, but unless you have fury up, its barely moderate pressure, and unless you have grenth, stances, protective spirit, bond, ect, has you stomped. against melee, you're GOING to kill the sins, thats the least of the problem, but warriors are going to be rough on you. rangers are nasty because we interrupt those lil avatars and enchants till you have no energy. mesmer hex, disenchant, and steal energy making enchanting useless, necros can be a dervs worst nightmare, and eles will snare you or just blind you. .

Now, if you were to make the point that pressure in PvP is not that usefull, I may believe you. But Derv pressue is far greater than warrior...probably greater than all the other classes. I don't know that Derv pressure is greater or lower than a warrior with IAS. But I'm pretty sure a Derv on IAS is greater pressure than the warrior on IAS. Grenth? That's just one good skill. There is also Melandru and uh whatever that Avatar that adds +20 energy and like +40 damage against enemies activating skills. That's pretty good elementalist/necro hate there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

...every class has a counter/weakness if not MORE than one, but slow attacking, enchant depending, moderate damage is just too many liabilities for me to get hooked. it seems like every class is a counter for this profession.

Dervs attack slow but powerfull. And with IAS, not slow at all. There are some decent non-enchant depending builds. Depending on Enchants is not a bad thing anyway. Especially when enchants are efficient (because of mysticism) and quick (most have 1/4 cast time). Damage is way high. I think of all the things you say here, this makes me wonder the most. Derv damage always seemed higher than warrior.

OK. And here is some advice. 2 heal spells for PvP. Vital Boon and either signet or restoration or that one that removes hexes. Disruptining dagger or whatever. mystic strike in most builds (although if using only one or two enchants, warriors ' skil protective strike is better then). Heart of Fury. Any method to apply crippling- either auro of thorns or crippling sweep. And an avatar or Ebon Dust Aura. Res Sig. Now sub out anything here for a speed-booster if you want. You now got a disrupting, crippling, high-pressure, fast hitting toon that will AOE if the enemy gets bunched up. Possibly blinding, or immune to conditions, or extra damage when enemy activates skills. And a 200hp, 5 energy self heal every 8 seconds (plus one pre-cast). Oh, and when either of the two non-optional enchants gets stripped (Fury or Vital), the toon gets healed or causes adjacents to catch fire. If the crippling method was aura of thorns, then will cause bleeding.

BTW, Dervs should never activate avatars in range of the enemy. And I don't see how your ranger shuts down enchants on a derv.

Nkah Sennyt · May 01, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Some of the points here are edging on flaming [Mekka, Kali]. Try to tone it down a touch.

Str0b0 · May 01, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

rofl.
have you even set foot in HA recently? 6 dervs 2 monks.. every derv has imbue health, preventing the monks being spiked. they put up 4 enchants, shadow step to target, all 6 fire off mystic sandstorm. i know what this spike is like, i've played it. must be 700+ dmg not including condtions, the infuser didnt have time to blink. now tell me wth your basing your observation on?

Yeah this one can be really nasty when coordinated properly. The current Shadow Step Skill of choice is AoD which has the range of the entire radar to operate, well out of range of most casters that could shut down this spike with enchant stripping. The popular conditions to drop are bleeding, burning and weakness with this. With AoD, since it is an enchant a lot of times it looks like the dervish just dropped a smoke bomb and didn't even move but all the sudden the other team just starts dieing. I'm going to build a variant for PvE which will rely more on the degen conditions and the damage dropping enchants to end enemies. The only problem with it is how to increase the damage output enough to where you can do a one off kill when you hit Mystic Sandstorm, otherwise you are an incredibly potent source of initial damage for your party if they can keep up with the range on your AoD. The goal would be to create a build capable of solo farming a lot of different types of enemies, ala trapping, except with the initial Mystic Sandstorm damage and the DoT conditions. I am a farmer, but even without farming any build that can solo kill mobs so quickly is worth experimenting with. I don't think it can be done but it's worth a shot and it'll be fun to play around with. My EDA build makes things easy mode so I'm trying new things to increase the challenge level.

EDIT: Here is an interesting question. I'm not sure how or even if this would work, and it probably won't. If one of your enchants in a Mystic Sandstorm Build is Mystic Corruption even though it gets removed as soon as you hit Mystic Sandstorm would it's effect still apply to those conditions applied at the instant of it's removal. I doubt it but if anyone could test this it would be nice. Sometimes there are weird mechanics we know nothing about in this game.

LouAl · May 01, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nkah Sennyt

Some of the points here are edging on flaming [Mekka, Kali]. Try to tone it down a touch.

haha, understatment! Nkah, you are really nice, obviously.

As for whether or not dervs suck...of course they do, if you don't like the profession. Same as all the rest.

I have had a hard time liking the profession, and because of that, I have never gotten one off of the susnpear island. But, the reason why I have had a hard time liking the profession is because I haven't played it enough...circular, I know.

So, I personally don't think that the profession is gimped, but I am gimped while playing it. I also don't really prefer playing warrior or ranger, and I love to play mesmer, monk, and paragon, so go figure...

Mekkakat · May 01, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

im not really in the mood to talk to Master of all dervishes Kali.

yeah i've seen the sandspike Dan, nothing new.

im not going to try to counter anything you all say, just counter or add to what i've said so i can record info.

thanks community :P